The 'Aztec Incident' Revisited:- Part Two -

By Scott & Suzanne Ramsey

– Skeptics

     The Aztec story has had mixed reviews over the years in the UFO community. Unfortunately it has earned its black eye until recently. In our final overview of Aztec, we need to collectively review the skeptical side of Aztec as well. Our in-depth research would not be complete or professional if we did not research the negative side of the Aztec story as well.

     J.P. Cahn (pen name John Kenner) wrote the first negative article on Aztec. About two years after Frank Scully’s very successful book came out, Silas Newton and Leo Gebaur were in trouble in Civil Court in Denver, Colorado. Newton had originally approached Scully with the amazing "Aztec Story" and had introduced Scully to Dr. Gee. Almost overnight the Aztec Story and the credibility of Scully’s source was in question. the case stemmed from an inventor that felt that the means of locating oil, through a doodlebug instrument was not of "alien technology" as claimed by Newton, but from surplus "junk". This is where many skeptics leave the story. Most have never read the court papers in detail or what Scully wrote after the scandal.

     First, the other investors were not allowed to testify on behalf of Silas Newton and Leo GeBauer. After all, wrote Scully, they were not upset with their oil investment.

     Second, the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) has a file on Leo GeBauer that runs over 400 pages. To this date only about 200 pages have been released to the public. GeBauer, Newton, Scully, and a cast of many that played a role in the Aztec Story have long since passed away. GeBauer had no next of kin. So why 58 years later does the FBI refuse to release over 200 pages on Gebaur? Is it really in the interest of national security as they claim?

Skeptic #1

Hart Canyon Road did not even exist in 1948…therefore the Aztec Crash could not have happened.

Answer #1

The last stagecoach robbery in San Juan County took place on Hart Canyon Road.

Source: Farmington Daily Times

Answer #2

Source: Original color - Rand maps from the years of 1890 and 1900 specifically show Hart Canyon Road. They were purchased as antiques from the Cowboys and Indians Antique Store 4000 Central Avenue SE, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87108

telephone 505-255-4054 cost per map $80

Skeptic #2

"In reference to Bill Steinman and Wendell Stevens book UFO Crash at Aztec

Steinman claims secret radar bases north of Kirtland Air Force Base, that’s absolute nonsense, never was, never will be its all bunk".

Answer

The Atomic Energy Commission built Los Alamos radar Site between 1946 and 1948 as a mobile operation down by El Vado Lake, New Mexico. This facility was not mobile by today’s standards, but small by comparison to fixed base facilities. The radar installation grew to an expanded fixed base by 1950 where upon it was turned over to the United States Air Force until 1957 when it was rendered useless by new technology. Over the years the Radar Base was referred to as Los Alamos, Tierra Amarillo and finally El Vado where it was designated the 767 AC+W Radar Base.

It’s purpose was to protect Los Alamos, Sandia and Kirtland Air Force Base. Furthermore, two other radar bases at Continental Divide, northeast of Gallup and Moriarty also existed but probably did not play a role until 1950.

Source: Air Force and Atomic Energy Commission declassified Document – 1999 - Author

Skeptic # 3

"The Aztec Crash has never yielded one eyewitness in over 50 years".

Answer:

This skeptic really takes the prize he lives three hours from Albuquerque and has never spent one day in Aztec talking with anyone. (Finally by his own admission) relies instead upon Internet searches and quotes silly articles that also yield no research. In the past year he has received all of the bio’s of our eyewitnesses and I haven’t heard a word from him since. - Author

Skeptic #4

"Both Ken Farley and Doug Nolan were dying at the time of Ramsey’s interview with them, therefore they were delusional and not good witnesses".

Answer:

Yes, Ken Farley was on oxygen at the time Randy Barns and I interviewed him. However Randy and I flew to Phoenix and Ken drove 45 minutes in traffic to meet us at a restaurant for an interview that lasted almost three hours. If Farley was "delusional", he never showed any signs to Randy.

Doug Nolan had been through at least six strokes when I interviewed him. His speech was slurred as one might expect, but his recall of details was very impressive as to the names of most locals and were at the site that day. He was very alert as to my questions and although slow in response, very detailed – Reference – author.

Skeptic #5

"A craft of allegedly 100 feet in diameter could not then in 1948, or today be removed from Hart Canyon Road".

Answer:

According to the claims made over the years the craft came apart in sections. I will be the first to admit that a complete 100-foot diameter craft being transported as one piece would be difficult, if not impossible to move back in 1948.

Skeptic #6

"The alleged Aztec incident was no more than a P.38 Lightning that ran low on fuel and landed on Highway 550 north of the entrance of Hart Canyon Road, near Cedar Hill. The P.38 Lightning sat along side the road for 10-14 days before the military arrived with a flat bed truck and disassembled the P.38 and hauled the aircraft back to its base.

Answer:

From the "Alleged Parking Spot" of the P38, the Durango Airport is less than 28 miles. The Farmington airport is about the same distance measuring 24.5 miles. If a P.38 were to run low or out of fuel and "dead stick land", within an hour the aircraft could be refueled and take back off without incident. Talking with former and current pilots, a fully loaded P.38 would require about 4,000 feet of highway or runway to take off. Taking off from Highway 550 in 1948, the pilot would have had a margin of 2 ½ times the required amount. The P.38 incident does not appear in any Air Force Incident Reports from 1945 – 1950. Also the P.38 was in very limited service by 1948 as it was a bomber escort plane. Possibly by 1948, the only service P.38 if any would have been in a reserve unit, however as of this date; I have not found any.

Skeptic #7

Almost same as above, but this time a T-34 Trainer ran low or out of fuel in March of 1948. The aircraft landed short of the old stagecoach barn and General Store in Cedar Hill, where it sat for over a week until the military arrives with flat bed trucks and hauls it away.

Answer:

According to my dear friend and long time pilot, Nick Engels, this would have involved two different phenomena’s. The first would be time travel, as the T-34 did not come into service until the1950’s. The second phenomena would be a fully loaded T-34 would require approximately 500 feet of runway or highway for a safe take-off. Why bring in flat bed trucks when the pilot would have a margin of 20 times required runway to take back off?

Local residence on aircraft.

     No one I’ve ever even spoken with or interviewed in the Four Corners had ever even heard of the aircraft theory. Again, the United States Air Force has no accident or in incident report regarding military or Civilian aircraft in that area over a five year period.

Conclusion:

     While we do not have a smoking gun or hard physical evidence concerning the Aztec Story, we certainly believe this case deserves much more research. With all of today’s resources at our fingertips it is easier than in 1950 to check on Dr. Gee’s claims. This report has shown only a few of the examples. However, the skeptics that have had their day in the sunshine and have brought nothing but speculation, demonstrating that when their claims have been researched, prove untrue or unqualified. This being one of many reasons that there is a need to continue researching until all claims are exhausted.

     This publication gives a glimpse and highlights of some of the research done on this case. Not covered in this paper are the declassified FBI reports that show monitoring of some of the original Aztec players for years after Scully’s book came out, O.S.I. reports stating they want information sent "only to this office" at Wright Patterson or Washington, D.C and over 2,600 documents support something classified took place in March of 1948.

     What Frank Scully stumbled on to in full disclosure may never be known, but we must keep researching just the same.

See Part One

Home