Note-As we approach the 11th anniversary of the so-called "Phoenix Lights" of March 13, 1997, and in lieu of recent "similar events" in Stephenville, Texas, the following is a continuation of a series of interviews/articles with and by direct eye witnesses of this monumental event.
Although many who witnessed this huge "V-shaped craft" have come forward, there are a great deal more who haven't; research concerning this case is ongoing to this day, and it is our hope by highlighting the event(s) and the individuals who witnessed it, more people will come forward and share their experiences. Comments are always welcome, and if requested confidentiality will be honored-FW
WHAT I OBSERVED--EVENT #1
By R. Hawkins
© 2007-08
The map, shows the area where my husband and I witnessed the Lights in a Perfect "V" shaped formation, travel the night sky on March 13th, 1997.Although many who witnessed this huge "V-shaped craft" have come forward, there are a great deal more who haven't; research concerning this case is ongoing to this day, and it is our hope by highlighting the event(s) and the individuals who witnessed it, more people will come forward and share their experiences. Comments are always welcome, and if requested confidentiality will be honored-FW
WHAT I OBSERVED--EVENT #1
By R. Hawkins
© 2007-08
This particular night, we left the house at almost exactly at 8:30 PM. I'm certain of the time, because we had just finished watching the Jerry Seinfeld comedy which began at 8:00, and we left immediately thereafter for my daughter's home, several blocks away. We drove Northwest on 43rd Place towards South Mountain Park, which was very near to our home. About one block from home my husband noticed an unusual formation of lights, just coming into view from above South Mountain directly in front of us.
He pulled over to the curb, and got out to observe, as did I. What we saw was a huge "V" shaped formation of lights almost above us, moving silently and slowly towards the east.
We observed the lights, moving past us very slowly, they then appeared to bank over, as would an airplane, and headed in the direction of Tucson (see Map), parallel to I-10. Our neighbors, who were out in their opened garage, ran out to observe the very same thing we are describing here. To the West in the night sky, quite visible that night, was the "Hale-Bopp Comet".
The "V" shaped object was not only silent, appearing huge, but as we could not see the stars as it passed in front of them, it leads us to believe that it was a solid object.
THE EVENING OF 3-13-97
THE CONTROVERSY-EVENT #2
Later on that same evening, around 10:00 PM, there were massive reports of lights in the sky, over Phoenix. This is the event which is most often incorrectly referred to by news organizations and in numerous UFO documentaries, as a UFO sighting.
The 10:00 event is a completely separate from and has nothing to do with my 8:30 observation of a UFO over Ahwatukee, Arizona and South Mountain, as well as the observation of others across the state of Arizona.
The lights associated with the event I described above, were sighted by witnesses over a number of hours, all the way from Northern Arizona and as far south as Tucson before finally disappearing. It's trajectory was tracked and a timeline was constructed based upon the observations of these witnesses. This event took place before the much publicized and well photographed subsequent event, (known as the Phoenix Lights) at approximately 10:00 PM. It has since been proven, in my opinion, by the Discovery Channel to have been flares dropped by the Maryland National Guard over the Estrella Mountains, from Luke Air Force Base.
We feel it is a very important distinction that has been overlooked by most all historians, even the History Channel and Discovery Channel seem to have forgotten there were two separate events which took place that evening. One as we described above, and another at approximately 10:00 PM. Over time they have been merged somehow into one event known simply as The Phoenix Lights. It has served to confuse and misrepresent what actually occurred on that night, and this may possibly have been the militaries intended result. I think it is worthwhile to point out that there have been no reports or photographs of flares dropped by anyone before or after the night of March 13, 1997.
Until these two events are separated and examined individually as they should be, the UFO skeptics and debunkers can dismiss this as one easily explainable sighting.
* Special Thanks To R Hawkins
More . . .
See Also:
EXCLUSIVE:
March 13, 1997 UFO Report
'Phoenix Lights' Remembered
SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE
Contrary to some misleading media reports, including the TV program "Anatomy of a Sighting" described here, we have been duped to believe there were two events. However, the data proves that there were many events during the evening of March 13, 1997, over many hours, including an apparent military flare deployment to confuse the issue, about 10:30 pm that evening.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain. The videographer of the large boomerang himself reported on an aired local TV Newscast that his video had been altered in that program to make the case for flares. If you look at the real footage, you will clearly note that the lights do not behave like flares. You will also see one lone light that is separate and to the left of the big array. This lone light is hovering on the right side of a foreground tree on the videographer's property. In "Anatomy of a Sighting" this lone light is either on the left side of that tree or absent all together. In other words, the footage has been altered to conform to the mountain range, thus making the case for flares. Just look at the program and the real footage. It speaks for itself.
To further clarify, there were not two events during the historic AZ mass sighting of March 13, 1997, but anomalous unexplained mile wide objects and equidistant formations of lights traversing the entire state for many hours. There are credible reports from as early as 5 pm to as late as 2 am. But the bulk of curious calls to Phoenix 911 operators, Luke Air Force Base, TV News stations, etc. came during the 8 pm hour, when most people were outside looking up at the clear sky for a glimpse of the Halle Bopp comet and also viewed the mysterious phenomena.
The first official report of a mile wide triangle array of lights came in from a retired Paulden police officer at 8:20 pm, followed by hundreds of calls [about that same time] from Prescott and south, throughout the Phoenix area. The phenomena continued traveling down the state's most populated central corridor toward Tucson [about 9:20 pm] and then back to Phoenix [at approximately 9:40 pm] when the phenomena were witnessed and photographed [over a 30 to 40 minute span] until about 10:15 pm hovering over Phoenix. Some call it a Grand Finale.
Not only were formations of the amber balls of light witnessed days before the mass sighting, but there are also reports that the orbs detached from the main object or craft, went out into the environment for a time and then re-docked with it during the Arizona event. In addition, there were witnesses who watched in awe as the gigantic, low, silent object glided slowly right over them, only to take off at a tremendous speed moments later.
Whether there was one object that could morph [and actually blink out when military jets scrambled towards it as it hovered over 7th Avenue and Indian School Roads in Phoenix at 8:20 pm as reported to Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle by a Luke AF Crewman ] or a parade of several phenomena occurring simultaneously, we may never know. But one thing is certain...
THE PHOENIX LIGHTS WERE NOT FLARES!
(CNN November 9, 2007) -- In 1997, during my second term as governor of Arizona, I saw something that defied logic and challenged my reality. I witnessed a massive delta-shaped, craft silently navigate over Squaw Peak ... this dramatically large, very distinctive leading edge with some enormous lights was traveling through the Arizona sky. As a pilot and a former Air Force Officer, I can definitively say that this craft did not resemble any man-made object I'd ever seen. And it was certainly not high-altitude flares because flares don't fly in formation.
(Leslie Kean, "Symington confirms he saw UFO 10 years ago", The Daily Courier, March 18, 2007) -- It was enormous and inexplicable. Who knows where it came from? A lot of people saw it, and I saw it too. It was dramatic. And it couldn't have been flares because it was too symmetrical. It had a geometric outline, a constant shape. —Fife Symington III
Numerous witnesses throughout AZ tried to capture this advanced technology on film prior to 9:40 pm, but because the massive object was so large and blocked out the stars, the photos did not turn out, save a couple of grainy videos of the V shaped phenomenon with lights captured earlier that night - identical to later videos.
However, it must be mentioned that the military may have deployed flares to divert public attention away from the true unknowns. And even though a 10:30 pm flare deployment was reported by the Maryland ANG five months later [after a front page USA Today article brought international media pressure for an investigation and explanation], it is clear that flares were NOT what others witnessed or photographed around 10 o'clock. Again, just look at the footage.
Please note that flares drift with the wind, cannot stay in a pattern, but descend in a haphazard fashion, glare and flicker frantically, have huge smoke trails and illuminate everything around them, including the smoke trail. Even though the videos may confuse an untrained eye [because the lights are smaller, white and flicker in the videos], it must be noted that none of the characteristics of flares were witnessed by the thousands who viewed the true unknowns [which were huge, round, did not flicker, illuminate or have smoke trails], including the videographers.
In other words, the giant arrays of rock solid and equidistant balls of light captured by a hand-full of videographers 'around 10 pm' [over a 30-40 minute span] were NOT flares. As one can see in the video evidence those orbs of light ARE attached to something and representative of what thousands witnessed for hours statewide, [as well as in Nevada and New Mexico] before and after the half hour Grand Finale over Phoenix, around 10 pm. that evening. [ie. Triangle, V, boomerang and wedge/delta shaped formations of amber orbs - attached to a craft or with a force field in between each light].
Just as telling and confirmatory, Air Traffic Controllers at Sky Harbor International Airport verified the next morning that the THREE HUGE EQUIDISTANT BALLS OF LIGHT captured on video at exactly 10 pm, "did not show up on radar, were attached to something, but through high powered binoculars they could not see exactly what they were attached to, and were IN RESTRICTED AIRSPACE". This was the same location that they also confirmed the same phenomena appeared two months prior to the statewide incident and they were NOT flares.
Hi Phoenix,
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking time to make or comment, or in this case to post editorial from "Dr. Lynne's site."
In part you posted:
the data proves that there were many events during the evening of March 13, 1997, over many hours, including an apparent military flare deployment to confuse the issue, about 10:30 pm that evening
For those of us that have looked into the Pl case, we're cognizant that this was a "multiple event." In fact, it was a "national event."
That said, although I don't pretend to speak for the author, methinks she was just trying to make the distinction between the large craft which many witnessed in the 8:00 pm hour, opposed to what is believed to be flares ejected close to "10:00 pm."
You posted:
If you look at the real footage, you will clearly note that the lights do not behave like flares.
Given the extreme brightness of the flares dropped that night (nearly 2 million lumens) as well as the distance, the difficulty of seeing smoke or a parachute along with the flare would be comparable to the difficulty in seeing a large planet next to a bright star; the reflected radiation would be overwhelmed by the direct radiation from the light source--in other words, one would only see the light, not the smoke of the chute.
You posted:
the data proves that there were many events during the evening of March 13, 1997, over many hours, including an apparent military flare deployment to confuse the issue, about 10:30 pm that evening.
Curious to note that her site (Dr. Lynne) says "10:30 pm," in regards to the "flare drop" when the majority of the data indicates "10:00 pm"; I wonder if that's a "typo" . . ..
Cheers,
Frank
Hi Frank,
ReplyDeleteYour site is great and you are so knowledgeable and informed. Just curious...
1) How do you explain professional skywatchers [air traffic controllers at Sky Harbor International] reporting the array of equidistantly spaced UNKNOWN ORBS hovering in Class B airspace at 10 pm on March 13, 1997? This area is strictly prohibited from military maneuvers. Just as compelling, they witnessed them through high powered binoculars up close and personal. Again, these lights had NO characteristics of flares and in the ATC's own words 'they were points of light that seemed to be attached to something'.
2) How do you explain that there has not been ONE report in 11 years of the formations noted in the hand full of videos [taken over a half hour period around 10 pm] on the south side of the Estrella Mountain Range, where the Barry Goldwater Range resides? From every report thus far, these light formations [which seemed to be attached to something] were witnessed ONLY on the north side.
3) Native Americans residing in the basin between the South Mountain and Estrella Mountain Ranges [restricted "no fly zone" airspace for military flare drops], stated that they were looking up at the lights at that time.
4) There is a Phoenix witness in the PL Documentary who states emphatically that he watched the "three huge lights coming towards" him at low altitude about 10 pm.
5) There are other reports, including a commercial pilot, who personally witnessed flares being deployed over the North Tac Range at 10:30 pm that evening.
As stated previously, there was much going on that night, perhaps a combination of the real deal, as well as flares to confuse the public. After years of debate, the military obviously did their job of muddying the waters enough to still be having this conversation.
The one thing we do know for sure...something spectacular occurred throughout the state of Arizona on March 13, 1997, which is still unexplained 11 years later.
Thank you for continuing to update and discuss.
Respectfully,
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the kind words, and "your input."
In answer to question # 1:
To the best of my knowledge “Sky Harbor’s position” was/is that nothing was seen, and or recorded on radar; however, if you have “reports” and or the “names of witnesses” that say otherwise, I would be very interested in seeing the reports, and to talking to the witnesses; please advise.
Additionally, I don’t believe the flares were in a prohibited area.
In answer to question # 2:
I would say that “there have been reports” that concluded these “light formations” were on the south side; more they were attached to parachutes.
In response to # 3:
I would be interested in their names and their declarations.
In response to # 4:
There’s no doubt in my mind that there were “orb sightings” as well as multitudes seeing a humongous craft of some sort. (Nothing to do with flares).
In response to # 5:
I believe the “preponderance of evidence” suggests 10:00 pm or very close to it.
Finally, and to be clear: I believe the military was “on alert” at least by late afternoon if not sooner, so “flying training missions” and expending extra flares is nonsensical; I believe it was done as a “defensive PR move.” Moreover, I believe the 10:00 videos captured the flare drop, and there is substantial evidence in support of that theorem. That said, that does not take away from all the UFO related activity that took place that night, and or that month for that matter and witnessed by thousands.
Cheers,
Frank
Interesting that the military announcement in July 1997 - months after they denied that anything was in the air [much like the 3 week delay and similar turn around in the recent Stephenville, Texas case] - came about weeks after the June 18, 1997 USA Today article, which had caused an uproar with the international media. The military was forced to come up with something. Yes? It seems reasonable that they took the only credible photographic proof and found a way to debunk it. Because the videographers were looking south and the lights in the videos look more like flares [white, flickering and smaller] rather than the real unknown huge, amber, round orbs, they could easily make the case. However, the same line array appeared in the same local a couple months prior to the mass sighting [confirmation 35mm pics on the phoenix lights .net website]. According to Dr. L's detailed reporting, she was told at that time by Sky Harbor air traffic controllers that the lights didn't show up on radar then either and were hovering in the restricted air space, the same story as the video of three lights at 10 pm during the mass sighting. From all indications, the ATCs were open to talk about it initially, giving details to local investigators and on Hard Copy [saw that one] and other national and local TV News programs, but inevitably got flack from the FAA and refused to be interviewed further. According to a news reporter [who is no longer in AZ] one ATC who came forward publicly transferred out of state years ago.
ReplyDeleteIt is now common knowledge that the Estrella ["star" in Spanish] Mountain Range was named in the day because of these sightings of orbs, which, according to the original Gila River inhabitants, have been appearing for centuries and are part of their indigenous culture. They are private peoples, but supposedly call these phenomena 'star or sky people' and the Estrellas 'gateway to the stars'. There's a Native American lady in the PL Doc. who confirms this.
There may have been reports of "flares" on the south side of the Mountain Ranges, but have not found any reports of the arrowhead, boomerang or triangle shape - rock solid formations that are evident in the videos. Do you have any?
And what's up with the "Anatomy of a Sighting" supposed analysis, concluding that the lights in the boomerang video were flares - over and over and over again? Have you inspected it? Blatantly bogus. In fact, in the follow-up local TV news report, the cameraman showed the real footage compared to an identical daytime shot and the lights were IN FRONT OF THE MOUNTAIN. Maybe you can get a hold of the televised report and post it on your site.
Thanks,
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
ReplyDeletePersonally, methinks the military has a wait ‘n see policy first; that is to say, that they operate from a “do what is necessary scenario; additionally, although I’m lumping “the military all together” protocol has always dictated “need to know,” classification” and “compartmentalization.
I think the initial hope was that the story would “die down” on its own; when it didn’t various actions were taken. Additionally, anything done at this point (by the military) only feeds the “confusion fire.”
If you think about it, dropping flares, not being up front about or doing an about face on the action is a brilliant defense, as “that now becomes the focus,” opposed to the “reality of the major event that occurred that night.” Our dialogue here is a perfect example!
Now what you call “photographic proof” I call pictures of “distant lights.” I believe the 10:00 videos including yours, er, eh . . . I mean Doc Lynne’s were of flares; however, let’s say I’m wrong and they are of a UFO . . . so what do we have? At the end of the day, we have pictures of “distant lights; so in my view it doesn’t matter whether the videos were of flares or not, because it still doesn’t take away from what happened in the 8:00 hour of a humongous “V-Shaped Craft.”
In regards to “anecdotal evidence” (re air-traffic controllers) I probably put more weight into it then any other researcher; however, it goes without saying that witnesses have to be vetted and declarations researched and verified; so again, can you provide names and or reports of some sort?
In regards to the indigenous people of the area, it wouldn’t and doesn’t surprise me that there have been “sightings” of UAP, as there as there have been “all over the world throughout history.”
You wrote:
There may have been reports of "flares" on the south side of the Mountain Ranges, but have not found any reports of the arrowhead, boomerang or triangle shape - rock solid formations that are evident in the videos. Do you have any?
My point is that the 10:00 pm videos are of the flare drop, and if anything had ever been “evident” i.e., unmistakable there would have never been a dispute, including this one.
In regards to the "Anatomy of a Sighting" Doc, the work done by “Cognitech” corresponds with the flare theory (flares drifting down “behind” the mountain peaks) by MUFON investigator, “Richard Motzer” and the most significant, “Dr. Bruce Maccabee.”
There are of course other arguments in support of the ideology that the lights were filmed in front of the mountain, but in my view, Maccabee’s analysis rebuts this dogma sufficiently and (barring an exact reproduction of the flare-drop) offers the most sound scientific analysis thus far, which concludes that the 10:00 pm videos were in fact flares.
Cheers,
Frank
Hello again Frank,
ReplyDeleteThe several aired TV News reports that featured the air traffic controllers in the flesh aside, seems like you've made up your mind about the 10 pm lights and that's fine. This is America. But did you know that Dr. L actually asked Dr. Macabee to analyze four videos from a totally different January 1998 sighting? He also analyzed her very close 1995 sighting of three identical orbs and subsequently presented the case as TRUE UNKNOWNS at the 1999 MUFON International Symposium in Washington, D.C..
However, he has NEVER addressed the SAME equidistant line of distant lights in the SAME location documented on 35mm during that very close sighting two years before the mass event OR the 6 photos of the mile wide formation of equidistant lights head-on and then turning into a V shape captured two months before the mass sighting [again confirmed the next morning by ATC as in restricted airspace].
That being said, this well respected Navy optical physicist and scientist in the field knew that Dr. L was remaining anonymous and couldn't refute his skewed pronouncement, which was taken quite seriously by others, obviously even until today. What was most disconcerting, in Dr. M's article he stated that from his 'analysis' his conclusion was that the 1998 lights were at a distance and thus must be flares over the Barry Goldwater Range. Case closed. He then pronounced that since the 1998 lights were at a distance [and flares], so were the March 13, 1997 videos. ???
The fact remains that the "real" Phoenix Lights phenomena [mile wide craft or lights with a force field holding them in a formation] traveled throughout the state during the mass sighting. So even if lights were seen at a distance it doesn't mean they were flares.
And even more impressive - and important - is the fact that NO ONE could triangulate the 1997 videos because they were all taken at different times [ie. King at about 9:45 pm, Dr. L at 10 pm and Kryzsten at 10:15 pm.] Ask any scientist with a background in triangulation. For this case - it is impossible.
In other words, Dr. M's so called analysis and conclusion of the videos taken around 10 pm on March 13, 1997 are not valid.
P.S. In 11 years, the Phoenix Lights have NEVER been recreated by the military, even though they were pushed for a reenactment for years by witnesses, investigators and even then Councilwoman & Vice Mayor, Frances Emma Barwood after their 'flare announcement' on July 25, 1997. They finally tried, but dismally, in a much publicized flare deployment on March 7, 2000.
With 11 years behind us and similar sightings popping up all over the globe, it is pretty safe to say that the "Phoenix Lights" were not flares.
Warm regards,
Phoenix
Good Day Phoenix,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote:
The several aired TV News reports that featured the air traffic controllers in the flesh aside, seems like you've made up your mind about the 10 pm lights and that's fine. This is America.
As stated previously, I would be very interested in seeing and or hearing anything from “any” air-traffic controllers who witnessed orbs at any time. Again, names, reports and now that you mention “several TV news reports,” these stations, airing dates, etc., would be helpful.
I might add, in contrast to what you’re stating, a report from “MUFON Arizona,” dated Sept. 29, 1997 declared, “Even control tower people at Sky Harbor Airport said they saw smoke emanating from flares.”
You wrote:
But did you know that Dr. L actually asked Dr. Macabee to analyze four videos from a totally different January 1998 sighting? He also analyzed her very close 1995 sighting of three identical orbs and subsequently presented the case as TRUE UNKNOWNS at the 1999 MUFON International Symposium in Washington, D.C..
Yes I am aware of Maccabee’s analysis of the January ’98 sightings. (By the way you stated in your earlier missive that, “. . . there has not been ONE report in 11 years of the formations noted in the hand full of videos [taken over a half hour period around 10 pm] on the south side of the Estrella Mountain Range . . .”; these accounts were “10 months” later) Maccabee used the ’98 videos as a “training tool” for the March 13th videos; his analysis includes the videos for both dates.
You wrote:
However, he has NEVER addressed the SAME equidistant line of distant lights in the SAME location documented on 35mm during that very close sighting two years before the mass event OR the 6 photos of the mile wide formation of equidistant lights head-on and then turning into a V shape captured two months before the mass sighting [again confirmed the next morning by ATC as in restricted airspace].
Him not checking “distant lights” on other dates doesn’t affect his conclusion concerning the 10:00 pm videos March 13th, 1997.
You wrote:
That being said, this well respected Navy optical physicist and scientist in the field knew that Dr. L was remaining anonymous and couldn't refute his skewed pronouncement, which was taken quite seriously by others, obviously even until today.
What you call “skewed pronouncement” is in fact scientific analysis, performed by scientific method, by, as you state, a “well respected Navy optical physicist.” Dr. L could have made her feelings known without divulging her identity.
You wrote:
What was most disconcerting, in Dr. M's article he stated that from his 'analysis' his conclusion was that the 1998 lights were at a distance and thus must be flares over the Barry Goldwater Range. Case closed. He then pronounced that since the 1998 lights were at a distance [and flares], so were the March 13, 1997 videos. ???
Nowhere in Bruce’s article does he offer so simple an explanation to the “’98 lights”; to be polite this is erroneous and misleading. Moreover, although the methodology used for the ’98 videos certainly was an aid to his research concerning the March videos, it certainly wasn’t the determining factor regarding his conclusions; again completely inaccurate.
You wrote:
The fact remains that the "real" Phoenix Lights phenomena [mile wide craft or lights with a force field holding them in a formation] traveled throughout the state during the mass sighting. So even if lights were seen at a distance it doesn't mean they were flares.
Clearly!
You wrote:
And even more impressive - and important - is the fact that NO ONE could triangulate the 1997 videos because they were all taken at different times [ie. King at about 9:45 pm, Dr. L at 10 pm and Kryzsten at 10:15 pm.] Ask any scientist with a background in triangulation. For this case - it is impossible.
In other words, Dr. M's so called analysis and conclusion of the videos taken around 10 pm on March 13, 1997 are not valid.
Phoenix, for someone who seems very knowledgeable about the so-called Phoenix Lights some of your information is off; the King video wasn’t taken at 9:45; moreover, Maccabee didn’t use it in his analysis, and the Krysten video wasn’t taken at 10:15.
Separately, the only people I’m aware of that challenged Maccabee’s conclusions directly, were Hamilton and King (earl on). King has since reversed himself, and agrees with Maccabee’s analysis.
Maccabee, like myself stays “open-minded” and certainly would reevaluate any data, evidence etc., in the event that materialized; to date that hasn’t happened, nor has anyone of his caliber challenged his findings via scientific method.
Additionally, aside from Bruce being a scientist, he’s an amiable chap and would welcome contrasting views from a scientific standpoint.
Again, and to make clear, although the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming that the 10:00 pm videos were of a flare drop; that fact certainly doesn’t explain, nor have anything to do with what occurred earlier in Arizona.
Respectfully,
Frank
Even though you disregard integral reports to make your case, doesn't much matter. As stated previously, seems you've already made up your mind...and you're sticking to it.
ReplyDeleteGod bless,
Phoenix
Greetings Phoenix,
ReplyDeleteFor our readers, let me try to be precise: it would seem that you and I “agree” more then we disagree; we both acknowledge UFO activity occurred on a grandiose scale on March 13th 1997, that had a profound effect on a good many people (to put it mildly).
It would also seem that we agree that flares were dropped by the military; the items we disagree on is “when,” (possibly where) and that the “10:00 pm videos were of the flare drop” (my conclusion).
My conclusion is based on the early investigative reports done by MUFON, the known repetitive training missions done by the Air Reserve in the area alluded to, and their specific admission of dropping flares in that area, at that time and stated so by a few people in a official capacity to do so.
Lastly, what “seals the deal” is Dr. Bruce Maccabee’s very thorough scientific analysis of the 10:00 pm videos.
You wrote:
Even though you disregard integral reports to make your case, doesn't much matter. As stated previously, seems you've already made up your mind...and you're sticking to it
You mention “integral reports” but during our colloquy you haven’t cited any; you’ve mentioned air-traffic controllers at Sky Harbor witnessing orbs above Phoenix at the 10:00 pm hour, yet provide no names or reports of any sort (when asked); you mentioned that some of these witnesses were interviewed on various television programs, yet again when asked offer no information as to what, when or where.
In refutation of Maccabee’s work you either condemn his analysis in toto, or say part of his analysis is “impossible” yet offer no specific points using scientific method by someone of Maccabee’s caliber.
As to my position, or my state of mind, it goes where the evidence takes it; at present said evidence is “more then sufficient” in support of the 10:00 videos being that of flares, and to date there are no strong arguments in my view to refute that; that said, I reserve the right to amend my views based on any new, or previously unknown valid evidence and continue to remain open-minded.
As always, thank you for your engaging input . . .
Cheers,
Frank